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Rylinks
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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pm

seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm
Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:59 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:56 pm

if we take this to its logical conclusion, you "deserve" the $20,000.00 because your boss is willing to pay it to keep you from leaving, not because mike is getting it.
i mean sure, but the reason that's the amount your boss is willing to pay is because it's the market price, which is also called "what other people are getting paid"
but you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.

mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
i don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?

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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:10 pm

to be clear i am saying that thinking you deserve the same pay as mike is a fine and healthy thought, not that it's correct in a moral realist sense

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:11 pm

Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:03 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:55 pm
Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:52 pm

The difference is that the thoughts I labelled "unhealthy" are a symptom of a disorder, illness or other problem that is hurting you. You can't just decide to make those thoughts go away either, but they go away on their own if the underlying problem is fixed. Feeling envy (or any of the other Deadly Sins, for that matter) is not a symptom of anything except being human.
feeling envy is hypothetically a symptom of you witnessing someone having something or being something that you dont or arent. envy is a form of self hatred to my mind. i disagree with your analysis of it under your own framework.
FWIW, envy is the "having something you don't", jealousy is the "being something you aren't". Anyway, envy isn't self-hatred. Envy is just wanting something that someone else has and you don't. It's no more or less than that. If you're unable to deal with the emotion productively, then it can fester and lead to unhealthy stuff like self-hatred, but that's true of any emotion, even ones traditionally seen as "positive", like love.
im operating under the google definition, which comports with my understanding of the word. it is different from yours.

en·vy
/ˈenvē/
noun
a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:16 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm
Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:59 pm

i mean sure, but the reason that's the amount your boss is willing to pay is because it's the market price, which is also called "what other people are getting paid"
but you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.

mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
i don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?
"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:19 pm

seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:16 pm
Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm
but you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.

mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
i don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?
"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.
wait so if someone thinks "i deserve shelter" they're either right or wrong, but if there's a cultural standard "people deserve shelter" there's no way to judge the truth value?

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:24 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:19 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:16 pm
Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pm
i don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?
"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.
wait so if someone thinks "i deserve shelter" they're either right or wrong, but if there's a cultural standard "people deserve shelter" there's no way to judge the truth value?
your conclusion does not follow to my eyes.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:26 pm

how would you judge the truth of a cultural standard?

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Re: webcomics

Post by Khaos » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:52 pm

i volunteer as judge of all cultural standards

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Re: webcomics

Post by Faceless » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:54 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:36 pm you shouldn't look at celebrities or instagram posters to determine your expectations, but looking at your peers is fine
except it's the dystopic world of 2020 so "peers" means "celebrities and instagram posters that I express a parasocial relationship with"
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Re: webcomics

Post by Faceless » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:55 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:23 pm like i say "shelter" but what that means is contingent on what everyone else has. we don't have flophouses anymore, even though that used to be a legitimate form of shelter
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ared-house
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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:18 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:26 pm how would you judge the truth of a cultural standard?
i dont disagree there is potential ambiguity and disagreement there.

id say its sort of obscenity standard stuff. a mishmash of precedent, non-binding documents from authorities, lack of conflict with authorities (statutes/court decisions/etc.), belief of population, and probably some other stuff. think like dibs for schoolchildren or the right of revenge in 1820s texas.
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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:54 pm

so is the right of revenge in 1820s texas true? and is everyone advocating for a minority cultural norm factually wrong?

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Re: webcomics

Post by Crunchums » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:55 pm

Rylinks wrote:so is the right of revenge in 1820s texas true?
it says "right" right there in the name
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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:56 pm

wrong about what, in what context?
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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:57 pm

wrong in the same way the guy who says he deserves to be paid the same as his co-workers is wrong, because their statments do not reflect the law, culture, rules, etc

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Re: webcomics

Post by Khaos » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm

look im all for forum anarchy but we need to adhere to cultural norms at some point

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm

its contextual. who are they talking to? what is the assertion?
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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:00 pm

Khaos wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm look im all for forum anarchy but we need to adhere to cultural norms at some point
forum anarchy is the cultural norm. i deserve to be able to talk about this here.
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Re: webcomics

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:01 pm

seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm its contextual. who are they talking to? what is the assertion?
someone in 1820s texas says 'i deserve not to be murdered in revenge'

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Re: webcomics

Post by Khaos » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:09 pm

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:01 pm
seathesee wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:59 pm its contextual. who are they talking to? what is the assertion?
someone in 1820s texas says 'i deserve not to be murdered in revenge'
aka 'no murder-backsies'

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:11 pm

i dont think that’s how it works. your family would assert your revenge killer deserves to be hung for exacting their right of revenge.
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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:47 am

Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:03 pm [
FWIW, envy is the "having something you don't", jealousy is the "being something you aren't".
i kept thinking about this so i looked into it a little more. i found this article to be the best combo of exhaustive and good source:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... vs-envious

good ol m-w thinks the quoted is incorrect. they conclude jealousy is simply a more expansive term that encompasses envious. they note, however, that there are a number of usage commentators (experts?) that think there is a distinction similar to what you described, at least in scope. so, maybe the quoted isnt wrong so much as a minority opinion on something that doesnt really have a concrete answer due to the nature of language. anyways, its a mildly interesting read.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: webcomics

Post by drk » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm

seathesee wrote:i dont think that’s how it works. your family would assert your revenge killer deserves to be hung for exacting their right of revenge.
Hanged! Asserting the killer is hung is asserting something else entirely.

I don't think I'll ever tire of correcting that word usage.

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Re: webcomics

Post by seathesee » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:21 pm

drk wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
seathesee wrote:i dont think that’s how it works. your family would assert your revenge killer deserves to be hung for exacting their right of revenge.
Hanged! Asserting the killer is hung is asserting something else entirely.
1820s texas was a wild time
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Re: webcomics

Post by Crunchums » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:44 pm

u gotta skate

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Re: webcomics

Post by Juri » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:24 pm

Crunchums wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:44 pm https://xkcd.com/2256/
:lol:
A nicely rendered version of this with a bunch of atlas detailing could make a cool poster
Image

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Re: webcomics

Post by Faceless » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:00 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:44 pm https://xkcd.com/2256/
:lol:
I'm disappointed that this map has NZ
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Re: webcomics

Post by Crunchums » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:04 am

why is that disappointing?
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Re: webcomics

Post by Juri » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:06 am

because there's a joke about new zealand not appearing on a lot of maps
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Re: webcomics

Post by Crunchums » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:03 am

u gotta skate

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