i don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pmbut you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.
mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
webcomics
stupid too
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to be clear i am saying that thinking you deserve the same pay as mike is a fine and healthy thought, not that it's correct in a moral realist sense
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im operating under the google definition, which comports with my understanding of the word. it is different from yours.Ashenai wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:03 pmFWIW, envy is the "having something you don't", jealousy is the "being something you aren't". Anyway, envy isn't self-hatred. Envy is just wanting something that someone else has and you don't. It's no more or less than that. If you're unable to deal with the emotion productively, then it can fester and lead to unhealthy stuff like self-hatred, but that's true of any emotion, even ones traditionally seen as "positive", like love.seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:55 pmfeeling envy is hypothetically a symptom of you witnessing someone having something or being something that you dont or arent. envy is a form of self hatred to my mind. i disagree with your analysis of it under your own framework.Ashenai wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:52 pm
The difference is that the thoughts I labelled "unhealthy" are a symptom of a disorder, illness or other problem that is hurting you. You can't just decide to make those thoughts go away either, but they go away on their own if the underlying problem is fixed. Feeling envy (or any of the other Deadly Sins, for that matter) is not a symptom of anything except being human.
en·vy
/ˈenvē/
noun
a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.Rylinks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pmi don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pmbut you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.
mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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wait so if someone thinks "i deserve shelter" they're either right or wrong, but if there's a cultural standard "people deserve shelter" there's no way to judge the truth value?seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:16 pm"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.Rylinks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:07 pmi don't understand what "don't deserve" means, as a statement of fact. It's something someone might think, and take action based on, and they might get more money because of it. What does it mean when you say their thought "i deserve more money" was wrong?seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 pm
but you dont "deserve" the market price. its just the price youre likely to be able to get because of a whole host of factors.
mike getting paid $20,000.00 more than you isnt some information or event triggering a right or entitlement. it is simply evidence of what you are likely to get as well if you push for it.
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your conclusion does not follow to my eyes.Rylinks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:19 pmwait so if someone thinks "i deserve shelter" they're either right or wrong, but if there's a cultural standard "people deserve shelter" there's no way to judge the truth value?seathesee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:16 pm"deserve" is tied to some sort of rule, cultural standard, law, etc. its a fact not an opinion. you can think you deserve something, but that thought is either right or wrong, and in the case of your example of coming to the boss it would be wrong. maybe that conversation would result in a new series of facts that would make it right, though.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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how would you judge the truth of a cultural standard?
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i volunteer as judge of all cultural standards
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except it's the dystopic world of 2020 so "peers" means "celebrities and instagram posters that I express a parasocial relationship with"
"Ireland’s Ireland and Scotland’s Scotland anyone who thinks different is a cunt" - Liam Gallagher
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"Ireland’s Ireland and Scotland’s Scotland anyone who thinks different is a cunt" - Liam Gallagher
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i dont disagree there is potential ambiguity and disagreement there.
id say its sort of obscenity standard stuff. a mishmash of precedent, non-binding documents from authorities, lack of conflict with authorities (statutes/court decisions/etc.), belief of population, and probably some other stuff. think like dibs for schoolchildren or the right of revenge in 1820s texas.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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so is the right of revenge in 1820s texas true? and is everyone advocating for a minority cultural norm factually wrong?
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it says "right" right there in the nameRylinks wrote:so is the right of revenge in 1820s texas true?
u gotta skate
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wrong in the same way the guy who says he deserves to be paid the same as his co-workers is wrong, because their statments do not reflect the law, culture, rules, etc
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look im all for forum anarchy but we need to adhere to cultural norms at some point
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its contextual. who are they talking to? what is the assertion?
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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forum anarchy is the cultural norm. i deserve to be able to talk about this here.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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i dont think that’s how it works. your family would assert your revenge killer deserves to be hung for exacting their right of revenge.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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i kept thinking about this so i looked into it a little more. i found this article to be the best combo of exhaustive and good source:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... vs-envious
good ol m-w thinks the quoted is incorrect. they conclude jealousy is simply a more expansive term that encompasses envious. they note, however, that there are a number of usage commentators (experts?) that think there is a distinction similar to what you described, at least in scope. so, maybe the quoted isnt wrong so much as a minority opinion on something that doesnt really have a concrete answer due to the nature of language. anyways, its a mildly interesting read.
with love, your good friend, seathesee
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Hanged! Asserting the killer is hung is asserting something else entirely.seathesee wrote:i dont think that’s how it works. your family would assert your revenge killer deserves to be hung for exacting their right of revenge.
I don't think I'll ever tire of correcting that word usage.
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A nicely rendered version of this with a bunch of atlas detailing could make a cool poster
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I'm disappointed that this map has NZ
"Ireland’s Ireland and Scotland’s Scotland anyone who thinks different is a cunt" - Liam Gallagher