netrunner

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Crunchums
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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:37 am

ICE (Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics) is the thing that comes from Neuromancer
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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:42 am

u gotta skate

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:17 pm

u gotta skate

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Ashenai
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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:58 pm

Metropole Grid is a really good netrunner channel and I love listening to their breakdowns and stuff. Their content is maybe too basic for a l33t h4x0r like Crunchums, but it's great for someone like me who doesn't know most of the cards. They go into lots of detail and explain stuff well.

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Jeb Bush 2012
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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:58 pm

Ashenai wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:58 pm Metropole Grid is a really good netrunner channel and I love listening to their breakdowns and stuff. Their content is maybe too basic for a l33t h4x0r like Crunchums, but it's great for someone like me who doesn't know most of the cards. They go into lots of detail and explain stuff well.
I'm watching one of their videos and it seems very well done so far yeah

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Jeb Bush 2012
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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:26 pm

what do y'all think of the new starter decks?

they're using neutral IDs with no text + infinite influence limits (that are only legal in the system gateway format), which seems kind of lame but maybe makes sense if you only expect them to be used with a v. small cardpool

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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:32 pm

I've checked them out but haven't played with them. I hate the neutral IDs, and much preferred the old starter decks that used simple but "real" IDs.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:33 pm

the ones at the bottom of the corp/runner https://nisei.net/players/learn-to-play/ things?
they look like two reasonable piles of simple cards
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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:34 pm

This is actually what stopped me from playing System Gateway, I wanted to jump right in without having to build a deck and was like "wow these IDs are so grody, not gonna do this." So then I looked into building a deck but was immediately overwhelmed, so I put it off for now.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 pm

i think there's a big difference between the decks you want to learn the rules with vs the decks you should play once you're trying to learn in the sense of getting better at the game
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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:36 pm

Crunchums wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:33 pm the ones at the bottom of the corp/runner https://nisei.net/players/learn-to-play/ things?
they look like two reasonable piles of simple cards
Yeah, there were 7 starter decks you could fuck around with on https://www.jinteki.net/deckbuilder, one for each faction. Now there's 4, and 2 of them are only 30 cards, and none of them have identities, and ugh I do not want to play with any of them.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:39 pm

Crunchums wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 pm i think there's a big difference between the decks you want to learn the rules with vs the decks you should play once you're trying to learn in the sense of getting better at the game
Yeah, but you could totally use the Anarch starter deck and tweak it. Which is what I did, way back when! I was like, "I wanna try Whizzard"! So I looked up the basic Anarch deck, swapped out the ID, then swapped out more cards where I felt like it. It was comfortable and easy, and I had a playable deck every step of the way.

I can't do that anymore, because none of the "starter" decks are even remotely a usable jumping-off point for a "real" deck (they don't have influence limits, for example). I have no starting point for building a deck. I suppose I could look some decks up online or something, but I didn't feel like doing that.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:39 pm

Ashenai wrote:This is actually what stopped me from playing System Gateway, I wanted to jump right in without having to build a deck and was like "wow these IDs are so grody, not gonna do this." So then I looked into building a deck but was immediately overwhelmed, so I put it off for now.
you could try playing the startup format? much smaller card pool. if you don't want to deal with building a deck you could copy existing ones; idk how much of what you enjoy is deckbuilding vs playing
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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:42 pm

yeah the issue with those starter decks is that they're "old" in the sense of not being standard legal anymore, so it doesn't make sense to have them on jnet like that because you're not going to find games with people. it would be nice if they put some new ones up there maybe, but shrug
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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:47 pm

and that's the tea, I hadn't seen this startup format (and it looks like there's at least a few games of it running on jinteki at any time), that does seem a bit less intimidating

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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:18 pm

boo that word filter

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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:22 pm

I don't understand what the tea is Jeb, please clarify what exactly is the tea

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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:35 pm

if you don't know what the tea is, you are the tea

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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:39 pm

and that's the tea!

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Jeb Bush 2012
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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:36 am

I've found my least favourite art downgrade so far

Image -> Image

e: (obviously it's a bit unfair to rag on the new cards for looking worse given the different circumstances and resources available. but they do and it is kind of offputting tbh. also I really like the original celebrity gift)

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:50 am

yep
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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:51 am

There are some upgrades too. I think the new Enigma looks better than the old one.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:55 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:51 am There are some upgrades too. I think the new Enigma looks better than the old one.
part of the problem is that the new card frames are worse, and they're on everything (although for factionless corp cards in particular it's a pretty small downgrade)

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:58 am

it's hard for me to be impartial on that one because old enigma is so familiar, but new enigma is definitely good
i looked through system update and there weren't that many cards where i liked the new art better. i think it's mostly a visual style thing - the new style is very sharp and most of the time doesn't look very good. anyway here are those cards
Image Image
Image Image
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Re: netrunner

Post by Ashenai » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:58 am

It's the Magic frames thing all over again. I kind of prefer the new frames, they're spartan and functional. The old credit cost in the upper-left corner was especially egregious and I hated it. So hard to read in any "real" game situation with cards seen from an angle or some distance away.

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:59 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:part of the problem is that the new card frames are worse, and they're on everything (although for factionless corp cards in particular it's a pretty small downgrade)
what's worse about them?
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Re: netrunner

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:06 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:59 am
Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:part of the problem is that the new card frames are worse, and they're on everything (although for factionless corp cards in particular it's a pretty small downgrade)
what's worse about them?
I find them viscerally ugly in a way that I don't know I can convince you of if you don't have the same reaction. functionally I expect they're fine

I dunno the thing they remind me of most is the output of the fantasy magic card programs people would use if they didn't have the right photoshop frames. the font looks off, the borders feel flatter and the colours are like they took the original palette and made it more garish

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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:07 am

some other art thoughts
i like the new Rototurret art. this is another one where i'm maybe biased towards liking the original
new Ronin is ok (old Ronin is great though)
Wraparound big downgrade imo
ditto Hostile Takeover
new Retrieval Run is cute
Legwork is a downgrade
ditto Security Testing
Dirty Laundry big downgrade, although a lot of that is the original being great
new Atman is solid
Pawnshop huge downgrade
new Egret is nice
new Project Vitruvius is nice

just lots of cards that feel like they have way less personality now. The Maker's eye (I), Test Run, Proco, PPVP, IJ, EMS, Scrubber, Corroder, Clot, Ice Wall, PAD Campaign, Nisei MK II
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Re: netrunner

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:10 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: I find them viscerally ugly in a way that I don't know I can convince you of if you don't have the same reaction. functionally I expect they're fine

I dunno the thing they remind me of most is the output of the fantasy magic card programs people would use if they didn't have the right photoshop frames. the font looks off, the borders feel flatter and the colours are like they took the original palette and made it more garish
huh, that's funny, because i feel like i would be more primed to dislike them having played with the old ones a lot, but i don't really feel any difference
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Re: netrunner

Post by Starprintsky » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:45 am

I'm confused because I'm looking at lots of different frames and I haven't played this game but like, just going by Celebrity gift up there, which I guess is like, new frames vs... newer frames?

The older (2017) is way better.

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