POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Probably what *this* should be called.
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seathesee
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:15 pm

Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:11 pm
seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:07 pm

I don't know what that is, but dude

Never listen to books
audiobooks are great! theyre like really long podcasts. i can ride my bike, or run, or do body weight, or play video games, or drive and listen to an audiobook. i cant read a book while doing those things.
I'm sure that's true, but





Music
i do both.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:16 pm

Dantes wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:14 pm

Rather than just ignoring me you had to say something.
im trying to be polite.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm

Rylinks wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm
seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:59 pm
Rylinks wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:56 pm

this is like 100% irrelevant language parsing but i read the language "He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate" to mean that if the president lacks the consent of the senate, he also lacks the power. I def think this is the only way to read the treaty part.
the president "shall have the power" and the president "shall appoint" are different. "shall" means mandatory. if i say "you shall push in the chair" that is different from saying "you shall have the power to push in the chair".
but the president "by and with the advice and consent of the senate, shall appoint". the obligation is conditional, and without the consent of the senate, there is no obligation.

moreover the language says "the president shall" it does not at any time say that the senate "shall" do anything, unlike many other places in the constitution where the framers meant to bind the senate.
It even goes out its way to start the clause with "shall nominate", then says appoint with advise and consent. The power that is clearly the President's is the power to nominate. The appointment power is clearly shared.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by ToadBrews » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm

Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm Also, there's another way to look at it. Suppose you promise your child in the morning that you will take him for ice cream in the afternoon. But then at lunchtime, he starts misbehaving terribly.
If you promise your child ice cream in the afternoon he gets ice cream in the afternoon even if he burns the house down at lunchtime. Promise is a promise.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Crunchums » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:19 pm

seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:10 pm
Crunchums wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:08 pm
seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:05 pm or win the war
??
last time we had a civil war the united states won because the side who wanted to stay the united states shot people who didnt until they gave up.
ah; thanks
u gotta skate

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Skeletor » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:53 pm

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (16.91 KiB) Viewed 830 times
An actual email I got
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm Also, there's another way to look at it. Suppose you promise your child in the morning that you will take him for ice cream in the afternoon. But then at lunchtime, he starts misbehaving terribly.
If you promise your child ice cream in the afternoon he gets ice cream in the afternoon even if he burns the house down at lunchtime. Promise is a promise.
I fully believe that you internalize such feelings of entitlement
It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

Skeletor wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:53 pm Capture.JPG

An actual email I got
Trump should riot
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by ToadBrews » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm
ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm Also, there's another way to look at it. Suppose you promise your child in the morning that you will take him for ice cream in the afternoon. But then at lunchtime, he starts misbehaving terribly.
If you promise your child ice cream in the afternoon he gets ice cream in the afternoon even if he burns the house down at lunchtime. Promise is a promise.
I fully believe that you internalize such feelings of entitlement
I fully believe that once given, your word is worth nothing.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am

ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm
ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 pm

If you promise your child ice cream in the afternoon he gets ice cream in the afternoon even if he burns the house down at lunchtime. Promise is a promise.
I fully believe that you internalize such feelings of entitlement
I fully believe that once given, your word is worth nothing.
Naah, I have a job and everything
It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by ToadBrews » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:04 am

Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am
ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

I fully believe that you internalize such feelings of entitlement
I fully believe that once given, your word is worth nothing.
Naah, I have a job and everything
I'm sure that you're very good at fulfilling your promises to people who can enforce them.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:06 am

seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:13 pm
Rylinks wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm
seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:59 pm
the president "shall have the power" and the president "shall appoint" are different. "shall" means mandatory. if i say "you shall push in the chair" that is different from saying "you shall have the power to push in the chair".
but the president "by and with the advice and consent of the senate, shall appoint". the obligation is conditional, and without the consent of the senate, there is no obligation.

moreover the language says "the president shall" it does not at any time say that the senate "shall" do anything, unlike many other places in the constitution where the framers meant to bind the senate.
this, and the fact that this is all in the presidential powers section of the constitution, supports my argument to my mind. this is a presidential power that the senate is involved in.
i realize i undermined my position by agreeing with this. i needed to calm down off of the dantes stuff.

i dont agree, as intended, the language is conditional and that the senate is not obligated to do anything. lets compare the treaties power:

"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur"

it uses the word "provided". that is conditional language. this is clearly conditional. the president has the power to make treaties IF (provided) the senate votes with a 2/3 majority.

now look at the appointment clause:

"and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint"

to me it reads he must nominate, and with the senate doing this other thing, must appoint. the conditional language is not there. the rules on a quorum are not there.

i think the "shall" walks through the sentence and commands the senate to exercise their advice and consent ability. i also think the framers intended the government to work on some level, and for the branches to be checks and balances on how the powers of the others are used, not if they are allowed to use them in general. an interpretation that the senate can just ignore nominations of the president, hypothetically with the effect that the supreme court is inoperable for decades or more, would go against this.

i think reasonable minds can differ on this and they have in the past.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:07 am

ToadBrews wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:04 am
Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am
ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

I fully believe that once given, your word is worth nothing.
Naah, I have a job and everything
I'm sure that you're very good at fulfilling your promises to people who can enforce them.
Well there's a value inherent in that :smug:
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:27 am

Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:07 am
ToadBrews wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:04 am
Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am

Naah, I have a job and everything
I'm sure that you're very good at fulfilling your promises to people who can enforce them.
Well there's a value inherent in that :smug:
Having a good credit rating means you’re very good at keeping your promises to people who can’t enforce them.
Pour like Hemingway's last call.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:20 pm

Dantes wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:38 pm
seathesee wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:36 pm
Crunchums wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:31 pm
but the republicans didn't do anything that was technically against the rules though, right?
my understanding is that they did, but the democrats waived it out of, once more, hubris. i dont think its ever been tested. there is no precedent making clear whether a violation of the established rules ever took place. i think it was a violation of the constitution as intended by the drafters.
Based on what?
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:19 pm

ToadBrews wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:04 am
Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am
ToadBrews wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

I fully believe that once given, your word is worth nothing.
Naah, I have a job and everything
I'm sure that you're very good at fulfilling your promises to people who can enforce them.
the implication when i promise my son something is that he doesn't burn my house down in the time before now and then

he's only four and yet he's fully of aware of this implication

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:22 pm

this works for adults too. i might promise to do something for you, but then if you call me a prick i might decide not to fulfill that promise. and society won't even label me as untrustworthy, or a liar, or whatever

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:24 pm

like everything it depends on the details

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:56 pm

Rylinks wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:43 pm
Dantes wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:42 pm
Rylinks wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:31 pm

because i read 'actual rules' to mean like, the rules written down in the constitution. If the actual rules include subjective judgement of what is acceptable conduct it's kind of hard to tell people that their own subjective judgements of good conduct aren't a reason to be disillusioned
I'm just going by the actual rules in the constitution, and then the laws we've built on top of that. If a state wants to change it's election scheme to move its choice of electors to selection by legislators, they can. Then they can all give up their offices in the next election. :shrug:
oh, your answer to the question is 'yes'? I didn't know the answer was that at all :supo:
There is one caveat to this I feel like I should call out. The state can make that decision however it sees fit, but it needs to stand by whatever system was in place on election day. Passing a law to change to another slate of electors after the votes are counted should be right out. I'm not entirely clear if it would be unconstitutional or not though.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:06 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:24 pm like everything it depends on the details
the details:
- ice cream is promised to my son
- he burns downs my house

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Crunchums » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:08 pm

i need more information
u gotta skate

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:09 pm

well, for example, if you have a known bad relationship with someone, that might already be priced in and further insults would not be a reason to renege on the promise

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:16 pm

if a guy gave you $250 and in exchange you promised to deliver him a flatscreen TV on Monday, you should still deliver the TV even if he calls you a prick

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:31 pm

yes thank you rylinks

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:33 pm

im hepling

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:53 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:16 pm if a guy gave you $250 and in exchange you promised to deliver him a flatscreen TV on Monday, you should still deliver the TV even if he calls you a prick
But if he's my son, he's in Time Out
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:09 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:33 pmim hepling
What, like Lucifer helped?
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:33 am

Doug wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:53 pm
Rylinks wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:16 pm if a guy gave you $250 and in exchange you promised to deliver him a flatscreen TV on Monday, you should still deliver the TV even if he calls you a prick
But if he's my son, he's in Time Out
If my son in time out can procure $250 then im letting him out of time out
Thats an important lesson about how the world works
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:34 am

I should note that he cant have like, pinched the money from me or anything. I won't let you out of time out if you do that. But im not sure why I would have $250 lying around in the first place
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:31 pm

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Democrats in of the House of Representatives will introduce a bill next week to limit the tenure of U.S. Supreme Court justices to 18 years from current lifetime appointments, in a bid to reduce partisan warring over vacancies and preserve the court’s legitimacy.

The new bill, seen by Reuters, would allow every president to nominate two justices per four-year term and comes amid heightened political tensions as Republican President Donald Trump prepares to announce his third pick for the Supreme Court after the death on Sept. 18 of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, with just 40 days to go until the Nov. 3 election.


https://ca.reuters.com/article/us-usa-c ... SKCN26F3L3
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