POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Probably what *this* should be called.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:33 pm

Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm

There's something I've been thinking of, which is that I think we somehow lost the idea of "none of your business". I don't remember when I last heard that phrase! But it's an important phrase!

Let me explain. When I hear about, I don't know, Chris Brown physically abusing Rihanna. That's a bad thing! But... it's also none of my business. If I was the first to learn about it, it would be my business to report it to the police, but that has clearly already been done. So, it's none of my business. I don't know these people.

I think this was a reasonably mainstream opinion before social media. It is a very unpopular opinion now, and if I were to buy a Chris Brown album, people would go like "you're enabling an abuser!" And I would be like, no, I'm buying some music that I like, and I honestly do not care what the singer does when he's not making albums. It's none of my business! It's the business of the police, and the courts, we have an entire system set up to deal with this stuff so it doesn't have to be my business. If he did a crime then he should be arrested and punished for that crime, and this fact does not interact in any way with whether or not I buy his albums. I'm not part of the apparatus set up to punish him for his crimes.

I think this is part of why politics is hard to talk about now. Because everything has to be my business. I have to engage with everything. If I like a music or video game or book, then I guess I better read up on the creator's personal life. In modern discourse, not caring about something that -- objectively -- has nothing to do with me makes me a bad person!
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Ashenai » Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:51 pm

that's one of the gataris, right? I think I recognize the girl with the wiener octopus hair

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:52 pm

it is

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:55 pm

congrats on recognizing (認) heart under blade

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Skeletor » Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:14 pm

Dantes wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:18 pm
Doug wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:02 pm
Luna wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:53 pm everybody always thinks things are worse now, but baz did have to obliterate political discussion because we just couldn't handle it anymore.
Not exactly lol
Right?

Baz obliterated political discussions because baz is a fucking child who refused to actually deal with problems. Spectacular administrator, truly shitty moderator.
yeah he should have just banned everyone who posted in that thread instead
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:37 pm

Skeletor wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:14 pm

yeah he should have just banned everyone who posted in that thread instead
that unironically would have been a better way to handle it than the way he did.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:18 pm

i think what he did was fantastic

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Skeletor » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:22 pm

i wasn't being ironic
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:30 pm

i didnt think you were. that was included to clarify my own stance.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:46 pm

Skeletor wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:14 pm
Dantes wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:18 pm
Doug wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:02 pm
Luna wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:53 pm everybody always thinks things are worse now, but baz did have to obliterate political discussion because we just couldn't handle it anymore.
Not exactly lol
Right?

Baz obliterated political discussions because baz is a fucking child who refused to actually deal with problems. Spectacular administrator, truly shitty moderator.
yeah he should have just banned everyone who posted in that thread instead
Quite possibly yes.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:52 pm

I'm being a little hard on him though.

The culture at large turned on us all and he either didn't want to or didn't recognize that he had to deal with that turn. It also doesn't help that his preferences tended to make him more sympathetic to some of our more cancel happy members.
Pour like Hemingway's last call.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:54 pm

bas' main problem is that he is a person. people have emotions and natural biases.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:55 pm

I know I was acting horribly towards the end. It was never something I set out to be, I just felt so incredibly besieged there and I kept getting more and more defensive. And Bas just would never do anything to try and improve the situation.

It was a few weeks after I finally broke off posting there that I started feeling better again.

Fucking shame. I still like most of the people over there.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:58 pm

the politics thread was a case study on why egos are bad. a very entertaining often times hilarious case study.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:21 pm

to my mind the politics thread, the culture of goodgamery, and the culture of the internet at large changed, and it all seemed to change around the time trump became a thing.

it felt, to me at least, before like we would all go in there and argue for arguments sake. we would be belligerent, throw punches, laugh, measure dicks, etc. then at the end of the day we would watch the tape together, point at ourselves and each other being stupid, and laugh about it. not literally, of course, but that was the vibe. there were teams of sorts, but it was all intramurals.

there were always people in there who felt the goal was to be the smartest, the most moral, or the most correct. that was fine. you could always play off people like that for fun. sometimes it was fun to be in that space for a little bit anyways, as long as you could laugh at yourself about it later. at a certain point, however, more people in the former category were converting to people in the latter category, and the mindset of the latter category became more entrenched. people confronted with that mindset enough would break and react with that mindset. eventually that mindset became entrenched and the norm. it got personal. it got unfun.

i dont know if it was us getting older. the culture shift. the thread getting too populated, or populated with the wrong type of person. maybe my perception was not the norm, and it was always taken super seriously by the majority. its hard to tell. emotions and intent are very hard to read online. i know i certainly was a "bad faith" actor at times and took things to an unnecessary level or got lost in ambiguities of the space. it ultimately was not sustainable for whatever reason. there is still a golden era of the politics thread, to my mind, that i reflect on fondly.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:13 pm

Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm I think this is part of why politics is hard to talk about now. Because everything has to be my business. I have to engage with everything. If I like a music or video game or book, then I guess I better read up on the creator's personal life. In modern discourse, not caring about something that -- objectively -- has nothing to do with me makes me a bad person!
I saw a Facebook exchange recently that I think about a lot. This trans woman I play Magic with posted, "J.K. Rowling is an an awful person and if you consume any J.K. Rowling related media you are a bad person too and you should unfriend me now." Then this other girl we play Magic with (AFAB), a kind of mousey bookish girl, replied, "Aw, but I like Harry Potter. Is fanfiction okay?" She just kind of... surrendered her fandom for a single acquaintance.

Now Harry Potter can pound sand so I wasn't personally attacked here, but you know, first they came for the Harry Potter fans.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:53 pm

pterrus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:13 pm
Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm I think this is part of why politics is hard to talk about now. Because everything has to be my business. I have to engage with everything. If I like a music or video game or book, then I guess I better read up on the creator's personal life. In modern discourse, not caring about something that -- objectively -- has nothing to do with me makes me a bad person!
I saw a Facebook exchange recently that I think about a lot. This trans woman I play Magic with posted, "J.K. Rowling is an an awful person and if you consume any J.K. Rowling related media you are a bad person too and you should unfriend me now." Then this other girl we play Magic with (AFAB), a kind of mousey bookish girl, replied, "Aw, but I like Harry Potter. Is fanfiction okay?" She just kind of... surrendered her fandom for a single acquaintance.

Now Harry Potter can pound sand so I wasn't personally attacked here, but you know, first they came for the Harry Potter fans.
Thinking oneself capable of determining who is a horrible person is arrogance of the highest order. We're not mentally, socially, or morally equipped to make those kinds of judgments. We are bad at it. Like, we can pretty reasonably say that Hitler, Pol Pot, and Colonel Green were horrible people, but they went way out of their way to demonstrate that. Most people that get labeled horrible these days get labeled so merely for having opinions the label hangers disagree with. Moreover, often they're opinions that in many instances are still mainstream!
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:10 pm

pterrus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:13 pm
Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm I think this is part of why politics is hard to talk about now. Because everything has to be my business. I have to engage with everything. If I like a music or video game or book, then I guess I better read up on the creator's personal life. In modern discourse, not caring about something that -- objectively -- has nothing to do with me makes me a bad person!
I saw a Facebook exchange recently that I think about a lot. This trans woman I play Magic with posted, "J.K. Rowling is an an awful person and if you consume any J.K. Rowling related media you are a bad person too and you should unfriend me now." Then this other girl we play Magic with (AFAB), a kind of mousey bookish girl, replied, "Aw, but I like Harry Potter. Is fanfiction okay?" She just kind of... surrendered her fandom for a single acquaintance.
many people choose their tastes in literature and media not because of the objective quality of the work but for social acclaim and belonging and so its not surprising they would quickly give up those tastes if the acclaim and belonging were threatened.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:12 pm

well i shouldn't say 'objective quality of the work' but they don't make any assessment of the quality of the work as art rather than what other people like

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Skeletor » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:12 pm

yeah i think a lot of people enjoy something because they like the experience of being a fan of something alongside other people
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Luna » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:29 pm

Skeletor wrote:yeah i think a lot of people enjoy something because they like the experience of being a fan of something alongside other people
let me tell you about my fandoms

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:33 pm

let him skeletor please
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm

Luna wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:29 pm
Skeletor wrote:yeah i think a lot of people enjoy something because they like the experience of being a fan of something alongside other people
let me tell you about my fandoms
what are your fandoms arti

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Luna » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Wumpy » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:41 pm

Ashenai wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:59 am In the good old days, we used to keep telling these people to fuck off. And now those people are gone. A sign of the degrading discourse of our times, mayhaps. Who can say
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Wumpy » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 pm

you guys should take political theory from me tbh

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm

Luna wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm*running away*
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:00 pm

Wumpy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 pm you guys should take political theory from me tbh
I don't think anyone here is opposed to the idea
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:07 pm

Khaos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:18 pm i think what he did was fantastic
what did he do?
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:12 am

Rylinks wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:12 pm well i shouldn't say 'objective quality of the work' but they don't make any assessment of the quality of the work as art rather than what other people like
This is a girl that consumes multiple fantasy books a week so I think her sense of relative quality is probably better than most. It is therefore probable that she knew Harry Potter sucks ass on its merits all along, and only continued to profess fandom up until that point for social reasons. Good thinking, Rylinks.

I guess that doesn't explain still wanting to read the fanfiction though.

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