POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Probably what *this* should be called.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:14 pm

Doug wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:56 pm
Rylinks wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:54 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:51 pm

Actually this contributes to Rylinks' argument, not against it -- if a 2020 curriculum doesn't resemble a 1970 one, costs more, and performs no better, then it sucks

But as I just said a second ago, I feel like anything involving hiring people may cost more no matter what it is
teacher salaries have either stayed level or increased only slightly, so that can't really explain a 3x cost increase
What about the benefits that come with the salary

I heard somewhere that medical + SS + medicare etc. effectively adds $11,200 per year cost to what you're paying someone -- that would account for some portion. This number is much higher if it's family insurance instead of just the employee

The rest is probably waste fraud and abuse though lol
i don't think waste fraud and abuse is really the right name. well "waste" isn't too innacurate, but specifically it's that we've tasked the education system with fixing problems that it is not possible for the education system to fix (e.g. lead in the water supply) and this is an eternal reason to keep shoveling more money into more education programs in the vain hope that the next one will solve the impossible problem.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:15 pm

Tucker Carlon wrote:Thanks for telling us that, Jen Rubin, and let us know if it's "racist" to read your column out loud.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:16 pm

Rylinks wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:14 pm
Doug wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:56 pm
Rylinks wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:54 pm
teacher salaries have either stayed level or increased only slightly, so that can't really explain a 3x cost increase
What about the benefits that come with the salary

I heard somewhere that medical + SS + medicare etc. effectively adds $11,200 per year cost to what you're paying someone -- that would account for some portion. This number is much higher if it's family insurance instead of just the employee

The rest is probably waste fraud and abuse though lol
i don't think waste fraud and abuse is really the right name. well "waste" isn't too innacurate, but specifically it's that we've tasked the education system with fixing problems that it is not possible for the education system to fix (e.g. lead in the water supply) and this is an eternal reason to keep shoveling more money into more education programs in the vain hope that the next one will solve the impossible problem.
Right

It should be called waste fraud or abuse
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:18 pm

This thing where Hunter Biden accepts foreign dollars by giving the person a painting he painted is just like the board game Gugong
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by haplo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:18 pm

we could easily make test scores go up without increasing cost if we just stopped letting disruptive kids come to school, they're not learning anyway

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:23 pm

Herschel Walker’s son says that UCLA has told him that they will drop him if he doesn't report his vaccination status even though all his classes are online
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:22 am

Sweden has just suspended the Moderna vaccine for anyone 19 and younger

btw the vaccine is called "Spikevax"? I had this vaccine and I had no idea that that's what it's called

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/ar ... de-effects
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Wumpy » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:38 am

haplo wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:18 pm we could easily make test scores go up without increasing cost if we just stopped letting disruptive kids come to school, they're not learning anyway
that'd be nice, even though in some places tha'd close down like entire districts

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:02 pm

Japan has launched a fighter jet from an aircraft carrier successfully, the first time since WWII

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:09 am

Rylinks wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:56 pm
Blissful wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:43 pm i dont believe a 1970 curriculum resembles a 2020 curriculum in enough of a way for these score metrics to mean anything, with the possible exceptions of simple arithmetic and spelling
i'm not really sure what the objection is. Kids in recent times are learning many things that just happen not to be in the long-term trends assessment?
the science course in 1970 is different from the science course today. so the fact that kids did good at a science test in 1970 won't track 1:1 with them doing good at science tests today

also the significance of a given score might even have changed! 70% might be a good result in some things and a bad result in others

i dunno, i just dont buy that things have stayed static enough in education to have a good clean stat that tracks well over 50 years like that
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:24 am

Blissful wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:09 am
Rylinks wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:56 pm
Blissful wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:43 pm i dont believe a 1970 curriculum resembles a 2020 curriculum in enough of a way for these score metrics to mean anything, with the possible exceptions of simple arithmetic and spelling
i'm not really sure what the objection is. Kids in recent times are learning many things that just happen not to be in the long-term trends assessment?
the science course in 1970 is different from the science course today. so the fact that kids did good at a science test in 1970 won't track 1:1 with them doing good at science tests today

also the significance of a given score might even have changed! 70% might be a good result in some things and a bad result in others

i dunno, i just dont buy that things have stayed static enough in education to have a good clean stat that tracks well over 50 years like that
oh i don't put too much stock in the decline in the science one, it's mostly that everything has stayed the same. The assesment is designed to measure education achievment over time and has only changed once over the time period (with some kind of validation to match the new exam to the old exam). I think what might save this is that all assesments correlate--it would be strange if there was some large improvment in student knowldege but absolutely none of the things they knew were on this exam.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by haplo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:46 am

I would imagine someone graduating today knows a lot more than someone graduating 50 years ago did, but I don't have anything beyond a hunch. If that were true, I think it's reasonable to assume it would cost more to achieve that. There's also a cultural shift where simpler teaching methods that worked in the past no longer work today. Fact is, a lot of kids aren't going to learn effectively watching someone hand-write notes on a chalkboard due to the prevalence of technology today.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by haplo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:49 am

fun fact: graphing calculators seem to have been invented in 1985

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by haplo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:50 am

also computers are expensive I hear

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:38 am

haplo wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:49 am fun fact: graphing calculators seem to have been invented in 1985
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Luna » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:04 am

haplo wrote:I would imagine someone graduating today knows a lot more than someone graduating 50 years ago did
yeah i'll bet fifty years not a lot of people knew math was racist. thank god we finally busted big math

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by haplo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:22 am

what a horrible life, to have lived in 1970

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:30 pm

People today know more than people in 1970 did about things that didn't exist in 1970

They know less about every other thing

People today can name more apps, or winners of The Voice. They don't speak more foreign languages, or know more about World War II, or are better at geography
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Crunchums » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:41 pm

actually knowing facts is also less useful now because it's way easier to look them up
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Luna » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:43 pm


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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:51 pm

Crunchums wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:41 pm actually knowing facts is also less useful now because it's way easier to look them up
You don't suppose that somebody walking around having no idea how many branches of government there are or thinking that World War II was in 1960 looks anything up, do you
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:54 pm

i do not remember the year of WWII and i look things up

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:55 pm

i do remember the other one

there are four branches of government: the military, the FBI, the civil service, and the media

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Crunchums wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:41 pm actually knowing facts is also less useful now because it's way easier to look them up
Well yes and no. Yes you can look things up if you know you need to know them, but you never know what you don't know. References will fly by you without knowing there's anything to reference. You will repeat old mistakes because you don't know history/prior art. You will do all kinds of things the hard way because you don't know an easier way exists. And so on. Knowledge is still pretty good, man.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Rylinks wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:55 pm i do remember the other one

there are four branches of government: the military, the FBI, the civil service, and the media
Hahaha
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Crunchums » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:08 pm

i wasn't really trying to argue a thing, because yeah, like you said there is still value to stuff, I was mostly just saying there is less value in knowing random facts like what the capital of Uruguay is. but
pterrus wrote:You will do all kinds of things the hard way because you don't know an easier way exists.
this thing in particular - man that's sad. most of the time when i want to know how to do something i look up how to do it on youtube and it's great. i guess maybe this is an argument for the information age being better if you totally succumb to it and don't try to act like you know how to do anything. and that's the tea
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:25 pm

The thing is, it's not that people today don't know the capital of Uruguay, but that people today don't know where South America is or whether it's a continent or a country
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Blissful » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:27 pm

Doug wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:30 pmor winners of The Voice.
im sure people in 1970 knew similar amounts about the entertainment they liked as people do today

the languages one is interesting though. it feels accurate to me intuitively, but im not really sure why. i wonder if theres stats on that
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Crunchums » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:50 pm

Doug wrote:The thing is, it's not that people today don't know the capital of Uruguay, but that people today don't know where South America is or whether it's a continent or a country
sure; i dunno that that's changed though? i.e. that was true of some people in 1970 as well, and i dunno if the percentage of people like that has gone up or down or stayed the same
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:07 pm

Blissful wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:27 pm the languages one is interesting though. it feels accurate to me intuitively, but im not really sure why. i wonder if theres stats on that
I would have suspected it went the other way. Learning languages used to be a huge pain in the ass, now both beginner stuff and immersion are much easier. The only question in my mind is, do fewer people want to learn a new language now?

I'm just talking new language acquisition of course. It's probable in America that more people used to know two languages simply because more people were fresh off the boat, but that's hardly a statement about our education system or general attitudes toward knowledge.

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