Charho-oh Virus Thread
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
it is entirely reasonable to not get vaccinated if you have already had covid imo
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
he hasn't had covid as far as i know and he interacts with his own older unvaccinated family members
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
welp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
I've got to say, I think your response is overblown and histrionic. While a lot of people are comfortable with the science behind these vaccines, they were still created in a ridiculously short amount of time compared to historical vaccines. It is not unreasonable at all for people to be nervous about them or not be comfortable with them. And the bit about killing old people is specious bullshit, we aren't talking about an environment where there is no vaccine and you should wear a mask. Most old people who are willing to take the vaccine have, and are protected. The old people who aren't willing to vax up are responsible for their own decisions.Khaos wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 2:35 pm very close friend of mine is not getting vaccine due to *reasons*
current thought is that i'm just going to tell them i don't really want to talk to them or hang out with them, because i am just too upset by it. and it's true. but if things ever return to normal times, where people can interact without fear of death due to herd immunity, then maybe we can return to normal times as well
on the one hand this feels petty but on the other hand i feel like i don't have any obligation to be friends with someone who doesn't give a shit if old people die, regardless of how long or strong that friendship has been until now
If this train of thought is enough to end a friendship, I question the entire friendship.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
get fucked. that train of thought is validDantes wrote:If this train of thought is enough to end a friendship, I question the entire friendship.
however your point about my precedents being mistaken/overblown may be true and so the train of thought may not be sound. thank you for your input (this might sound sarcastic but it's not)
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
it is not true that the only people who you harm by going anti-vacc are people who somehow "deserve" it (even if you think that makes sense in the first place). most obviously even the most effective vaccines are not 100% effective
I don't have any strong opinion on the right course of action, though. believing stupid & harmful things & acting on them isn't that unusual
I don't have any strong opinion on the right course of action, though. believing stupid & harmful things & acting on them isn't that unusual
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
but they've been shown to be 100% effective against hospitalization and death (in clinical trials) correct? just not infectionJeb Bush 2012 wrote:most obviously even the most effective vaccines are not 100% effective
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
A train of thought built on unstable precedents is not valid at all. If your friend was blind firing a rifle in random directions, and that was the precedent for doubting the friendship, I'd agree it would be valid. But that's not the basis.
Moreover, I have a very hard time with the idea of completely cutting people off. I understand that it is occasionally necessary, but those occasions should be rare (I've done it one time in my entire life). Friend and family relationships are supposed to be built on trust, mutual respect, shared experience, and toleration. Cutting someone off until they change a behavior you find problematic is tantamount to emotional blackmail. Unfortunately these days it happens at the drop of a hat, and usually as a result of something as small and petty as politics. I despise the entire practice.
If it's not clear, you stumbled into one of my big red buttons.
I do not take it as sarcasm.
Pour like Hemingway's last call.
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
Upset because you're worried about them, or upset because they're not behaving properly
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
The vaccines lower the Covid mortality risk from .74 percent to .04 percent, which is an elimination of 95 percent of the risk
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
i think they'll be fine based on their age.
im worried about them because they're not behaving properly and are endangering others
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
ok that's different from what i thought. is there a link showing the data on thisDoug wrote:The vaccines lower the Covid mortality risk from .74 percent to .04 percent, which is an elimination of 95 percent of the risk
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
I don't think that's correct, no (I mean it's literally impossible for it to be correct since no trial could have enough participants to give you confidence of 100% effectiveness but I don't think it's true at like 99% either)
I think you're thinking of preliminary reports from trials where they had numbers on cases but no deaths yet, but iirc the number of deaths in the control group wasn't in the hundreds there either
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
sure in trials but the CDC has reported 132 vaccine breakthrough deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... cases.html
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
i mean this in the most literal sense of the wordDantes wrote:A train of thought built on unstable precedents is not valid at all.
https://iep.utm.edu/val-snd/
this is not about politics. we have vastly different political beliefs and i (edit: we) never let it get in the way of anything
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
The purpose of the vaccines is to save the vaccinated person -- the CDC makes no guarantee that the vaccines stop you from spreading itCDC April 28 wrote:We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
yes but on the other hand the vaccines totally stop you from spreading it (mostly)
someone could be forgiven for not knowing this given the messaging though
someone could be forgiven for not knowing this given the messaging though
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
yes i know this. my understanding is that it's only very very effective at stopping the spreadDoug wrote:The purpose of the vaccines is to save the vaccinated person -- the CDC makes no guarantee that the vaccines stop you from spreading itCDC April 28 wrote:We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
we regret to inform you that the CDC is at it again
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
The CDC doesn't say this, why do youKhaos wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 4:06 pmyes i know this. my understanding is that it's only very very effective at stopping the spreadDoug wrote:The purpose of the vaccines is to save the vaccinated person -- the CDC makes no guarantee that the vaccines stop you from spreading itCDC April 28 wrote:We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
Okay, fine. It's unsound. Happy?Khaos wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 4:04 pmi mean this in the most literal sense of the wordDantes wrote:A train of thought built on unstable precedents is not valid at all.
https://iep.utm.edu/val-snd/
this is not about politics. we have vastly different political beliefs and i never let it get in the way of anything
Pour like Hemingway's last call.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
This seems to imply that inconsistent and confusing messaging leads to inconsistent and confusing outcomes.
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
i always get happy when people start using valid and sound correctly consistently with how i use themDantes wrote:
Okay, fine. It's unsound. Happy?
clear communication rules
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
unfortunately i think language like that is not useful for communication outside of logical arguments
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
When you say "using valid," do you mean "using 'valid'"
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
he who drinks sleeps
he who sleeps does not sin
he who does not sin is holy
therefore he who drinks is holy
he who sleeps does not sin
he who does not sin is holy
therefore he who drinks is holy
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Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
fortunately khaos is canadian
understating the case a bit but better than pretending we have no idea what the effect is imoPublic Health Agency of Canada wrote: Although COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting sick, scientists are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show the vaccines do help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated.
Re: Charho-oh Virus Thread
yeah i mean i don't always insist on it. i understood what dantes was saying regardless which is why i appreciated his inputRylinks wrote:unfortunately i think language like that is not useful for communication outside of logical arguments