slatestarcodex

Probably what *this* should be called.
User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:is there anything specific that you think is really compelling? it's a long list of bad arguments and I'm not really inclined to go through it point by point
* how is "Crypto Is Full Of Extremely Clear Use Cases, Which It Already Succeeds At Very Well" a misrepresentation
* do you disagree with the claim "Big Crypto Projects Are Very Rarely Scams"? (I don't have an opinion but his argument seems reasonable so I'm curious)
* "Yes, The Crypto Financial System Is Just Reinventing The Regular Financial System Except Worse In Every Way, And That’s Fine" seems correct to me?
u gotta skate

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:42 am

I personally contributed in a small way to Russia’s cryptocurrency use. I’ve been trying to help Russian ACX readers escape to other countries to avoid conscription or arrest. Of my two successes so far, both involved sending cryptocurrency to help them afford a ticket out and living expenses while they searched for a job in their new country. I’m pretty proud of this and I don’t think it would have been possible without crypto.
This certainly seems like a practical use case.

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:45 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:36 am reasons to have crypto now:
1) what if USD loses its value
there are a million things that are a better inflation hedge than crypto
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:36 am 2) what if the government goes authoritarian and freezes my bank account
then you’re fucked whether or not you have crypto (also if “buy some crypto” really would protect you against that there would be no reason to do it now, that’s not a thing you have to worry about for the time being. most likely it’s not a thing you’ll ever have to worry about but if it starts to become a live possibility you’ll know)

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:59 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am
Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:is there anything specific that you think is really compelling? it's a long list of bad arguments and I'm not really inclined to go through it point by point
* how is "Crypto Is Full Of Extremely Clear Use Cases, Which It Already Succeeds At Very Well" a misrepresentation
“crypto has some niche use cases for financial transfers in countries where exactly the right conditions apply. also it’s good if you’re doing crime, which in some specific cases can be good”. I don’t think that remotely corresponds to the actual headline, if you do then I don’t know what to say
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am * do you disagree with the claim "Big Crypto Projects Are Very Rarely Scams"? (I don't have an opinion but his argument seems reasonable so I'm curious)
it’s a motte-and-bailey thing. when you define it down to “they have to be a proven ponzi where everyone’s money is stolen” and quantify “very rarely” such that a bunch of major crypto projects being the latter kind of scam doesn’t count because there’s hundreds of other big crypto projects, it becomes true. but then who cares? (and the claim that crypto has a normal level of scams in this sense is a ridiculous falsehood)
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am * "Yes, The Crypto Financial System Is Just Reinventing The Regular Financial System Except Worse In Every Way, And That’s Fine" seems correct to me?
it’s not fine! things that are better are better than things that are worse. he justifies the latter by invoking “decentralisation”, but that’s bullshit—to get to “the regular financial system except worse in every way” you have to give up the “decentralisation” bit

btw since he muddies the water on this a bit it’s worth pointing out that for the vast majority of people doing remittances there is no use case for crypto—regular financial channels work better for most country pairs. which is why the whole “94% of the world” thing is wrong, he’s talking about something that applies to a much much smaller slice of the world

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:42 am
I personally contributed in a small way to Russia’s cryptocurrency use. I’ve been trying to help Russian ACX readers escape to other countries to avoid conscription or arrest. Of my two successes so far, both involved sending cryptocurrency to help them afford a ticket out and living expenses while they searched for a job in their new country. I’m pretty proud of this and I don’t think it would have been possible without crypto.
This certainly seems like a practical use case.
indeed. no-one denies that crypto is useful for crime! and this is a case where crime is good. but “crypto’s main usecase is crime” is the crypto-skeptic POV!

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:36 am reasons to have crypto now:
1) what if USD loses its value
there are a million things that are a better inflation hedge than crypto
oh i didn't mean inflation, i meant like the system collapses and hundred dollars bills start being used as toilet paper. though yeah if that happens then probably you'd be better off with like a gun and food and water. but idk, imagine if trump pulled off 1/6 and declares that he's replacing USD with TrumpBux or something and it's not just like all out societal collapse
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:36 am 2) what if the government goes authoritarian and freezes my bank account
then you’re fucked whether or not you have crypto (also if “buy some crypto” really would protect you against that there would be no reason to do it now, that’s not a thing you have to worry about for the time being. most likely it’s not a thing you’ll ever have to worry about but if it starts to become a live possibility you’ll know)
so the idea is that before the government goes authoritarian I notice that it's about to happen and get into crypto then? i'm not confident in my ability to get the timing right
but like idk, the canadian trucker protest thing, seems like it would be useful for those people to have crypto?
u gotta skate

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:06 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am oh i didn't mean inflation, i meant like the system collapses and hundred dollars bills start being used as toilet paper. though yeah if that happens then probably you'd be better off with like a gun and food and water. but idk, imagine if trump pulled off 1/6 and declares that he's replacing USD with TrumpBux or something and it's not just like all out societal collapse
then you’d be better off owning real property. if real property is no longer valuable then bitcoin isn’t either
so the idea is that before the government goes authoritarian I notice that it's about to happen and get into crypto then? i'm not confident in my ability to get the timing right
you don’t need magical timing to know that, at the present, there is no reason to be concerned that the government will freeze your, crunchums’, bank account
but like idk, the canadian trucker protest thing, seems like it would be useful for those people to have crypto?
what would they do with the crypto without a way to transform it into canadian dollars? or if you’re just talking about, if your bank account is frozen it would be better if you instead bought some stuff with the money before it is frozen then sure but there’s no particular reason for that to be cryptocurrencies. I would recommend cash (not criminal advice)

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:08 am

also I think it’s cheating to reply to “is there anything specific you think is really compelling?’ with “all of it” >:-[

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:08 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:59 am
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am
Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:is there anything specific that you think is really compelling? it's a long list of bad arguments and I'm not really inclined to go through it point by point
* how is "Crypto Is Full Of Extremely Clear Use Cases, Which It Already Succeeds At Very Well" a misrepresentation
“crypto has some niche use cases for financial transfers in countries where exactly the right conditions apply. also it’s good if you’re doing crime, which in some specific cases can be good”. I don’t think that remotely corresponds to the actual headline, if you do then I don’t know what to say
nah i agree with you that that headline overstates things at least slightly. i mean we could argue semantics about how "full of extremely clear use cases" doesn't contradict the sum of those use cases being niche, but meh
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am * do you disagree with the claim "Big Crypto Projects Are Very Rarely Scams"? (I don't have an opinion but his argument seems reasonable so I'm curious)
it’s a motte-and-bailey thing. when you define it down to “they have to be a proven ponzi where everyone’s money is stolen” and quantify “very rarely” such that a bunch of major crypto projects being the latter kind of scam doesn’t count because there’s hundreds of other big crypto projects, it becomes true. but then who cares? (and the claim that crypto has a normal level of scams in this sense is a ridiculous falsehood)
i think the way that he grabbed some articles from years ago and then checked on how those specific things did is pretty convincing for his argument. maybe he needed a more specific definition than just "big"?
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am * "Yes, The Crypto Financial System Is Just Reinventing The Regular Financial System Except Worse In Every Way, And That’s Fine" seems correct to me?
it’s not fine! things that are better are better than things that are worse. he justifies the latter by invoking “decentralisation”, but that’s bullshit—to get to “the regular financial system except worse in every way” you have to give up the “decentralisation” bit

btw since he muddies the water on this a bit it’s worth pointing out that for the vast majority of people doing remittances there is no use case for crypto—regular financial channels work better for most country pairs. which is why the whole “94% of the world” thing is wrong, he’s talking about something that applies to a much much smaller slice of the world
i don't get your argument here. "yes it's worse, but in exchange sometimes it works where the regular financial system wouldn't" seems pretty straightforward to me. i agree that using it in cases where the regular financial system works doesn't make sense, but isn't the point that it works in some cases where the regular financial system doesn't? the point is that he's biting the bullet on crypto sucking in a lot of ways - it's a trade-off
u gotta skate

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:14 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am
Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:42 am
I personally contributed in a small way to Russia’s cryptocurrency use. I’ve been trying to help Russian ACX readers escape to other countries to avoid conscription or arrest. Of my two successes so far, both involved sending cryptocurrency to help them afford a ticket out and living expenses while they searched for a job in their new country. I’m pretty proud of this and I don’t think it would have been possible without crypto.
This certainly seems like a practical use case.
indeed. no-one denies that crypto is useful for crime! and this is a case where crime is good. but “crypto’s main usecase is crime” is the crypto-skeptic POV!
Is it? It just seems sort of obvious to me. If you like and trust the central authority, there is no benefit to a decentralized solution. Crypto is useful when you don't like or trust the central authority, and wish to do things it wouldn't approve of. Effective things that the central authority doesn't approve of are generally crimes, because by and large, the central authority gets to decide what crimes are.

I wouldn't call myself a crypro-skeptic, though, or a crypto enthusiast. I think my stance on it is somewhat similar to the codex guy's, except I wouldn't use most of his terrible arguments. The russian emigrant example is a good one, though.

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:16 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote:
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am oh i didn't mean inflation, i meant like the system collapses and hundred dollars bills start being used as toilet paper. though yeah if that happens then probably you'd be better off with like a gun and food and water. but idk, imagine if trump pulled off 1/6 and declares that he's replacing USD with TrumpBux or something and it's not just like all out societal collapse
then you’d be better off owning real property. if real property is no longer valuable then bitcoin isn’t either
maybe in terms of asset value or something, but my house isn't going to help me purchase goods or services. it's not a currency
so the idea is that before the government goes authoritarian I notice that it's about to happen and get into crypto then? i'm not confident in my ability to get the timing right
you don’t need magical timing to know that, at the present, there is no reason to be concerned that the government will freeze your, crunchums’, bank account
but if trump wins in 2024 and i attend a protest and fascism etc... i mean yeah i don't think it's going to happen, but in that situation i don't think it would be totally crazy for me to get some crypto ahead of time. it not being a useful hedge against authoritarianism for me right in this moment doesn't mean that it isn't useful as a hedge against authoritarianism in general
but like idk, the canadian trucker protest thing, seems like it would be useful for those people to have crypto?
what would they do with the crypto without a way to transform it into canadian dollars? or if you’re just talking about, if your bank account is frozen it would be better if you instead bought some stuff with the money before it is frozen then sure but there’s no particular reason for that to be cryptocurrencies. I would recommend cash (not criminal advice)
well you can already pay for various normal things with crypto sometimes (and this will likely only go up in the future), so i don't accept your argument that it's necessary for them to be able to transform it into canadian dollars for crypto to be useful. but also i don't understand how freezing your bank account would prevent you from transforming your crypto into canadian dollars. but yeah at the moment having physical cash would be more convenient than crypto (ignoring the concerns about how to keep that cash)
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:17 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:08 am also I think it’s cheating to reply to “is there anything specific you think is really compelling?’ with “all of it” >:-[
i laid out three points that made sense to me, that's different than "all of it" even if it the points corresponded to the subsections :colbert:
u gotta skate

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:18 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:08 am i think the way that he grabbed some articles from years ago and then checked on how those specific things did is pretty convincing for his argument. maybe he needed a more specific definition than just "big"?
I don’t think that is relevant to the criticism I am making? the point is that the way he defines down his claim means it tells you nothing about whether you should be optimistic about crypto
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am i don't get your argument here. "yes it's worse, but in exchange sometimes it works where the regular financial system wouldn't" seems pretty straightforward to me. i agree that using it in cases where the regular financial system works doesn't make sense, but isn't the point that it works in some cases where the regular financial system doesn't? the point is that he's biting the bullet on crypto sucking in a lot of ways - it's a trade-off
it doesn’t do that, though. the “crypto financial system” doesn’t help you in the narrow situations where crypto is useful

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:18 am

(ps this is a fun conversation and thanks for posting)
u gotta skate

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:18 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:06 am
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:00 am oh i didn't mean inflation, i meant like the system collapses and hundred dollars bills start being used as toilet paper. though yeah if that happens then probably you'd be better off with like a gun and food and water. but idk, imagine if trump pulled off 1/6 and declares that he's replacing USD with TrumpBux or something and it's not just like all out societal collapse
then you’d be better off owning real property. if real property is no longer valuable then bitcoin isn’t either
Property is a) very illiquid, and b) not at all safe. There have been many examples in history of large-scale property seizures, and almost all of them were during some kind of societal upheaval.

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16116
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:22 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:18 am
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:08 am i think the way that he grabbed some articles from years ago and then checked on how those specific things did is pretty convincing for his argument. maybe he needed a more specific definition than just "big"?
I don’t think that is relevant to the criticism I am making? the point is that the way he defines down his claim means it tells you nothing about whether you should be optimistic about crypto
i don't think he's saying you should be optimistic about crypto, he's saying that you should be less than infinitely hostile towards crypto. motte bailey potential here though for sure. but like i am super hostile to crypto because it's mostly scams, so what are we even arguing about here
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:40 am i don't get your argument here. "yes it's worse, but in exchange sometimes it works where the regular financial system wouldn't" seems pretty straightforward to me. i agree that using it in cases where the regular financial system works doesn't make sense, but isn't the point that it works in some cases where the regular financial system doesn't? the point is that he's biting the bullet on crypto sucking in a lot of ways - it's a trade-off
it doesn’t do that, though. the “crypto financial system” doesn’t help you in the narrow situations where crypto is useful
i'm confused - if crypto lets you send money to russian emigrants or w/e where the regular financial system wouldn't, isn't that the crypto financial system helping you? am i confused about our terms here?
u gotta skate

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:23 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:14 am Is it? It just seems sort of obvious to me. If you like and trust the central authority, there is no benefit to a decentralized solution. Crypto is useful when you don't like or trust the central authority, and wish to do things it wouldn't approve of. Effective things that the central authority doesn't approve of are generally crimes, because by and large, the central authority gets to decide what crimes are.

I wouldn't call myself a crypro-skeptic, though, or a crypto enthusiast. I think my stance on it is somewhat similar to the codex guy's, except I wouldn't use most of his terrible arguments. The russian emigrant example is a good one, though.
“like and trust” is too strong (crypto is very bad at what it does so you need a very strong reason for using it to be worthwhile, e.g. this transaction is literally illegal or whatever), but otherwise, I dunno what to say, no-one denies crypto is good for crime

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:25 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:18 am Property is a) very illiquid, and b) not at all safe. There have been many examples in history of large-scale property seizures, and almost all of them were during some kind of societal upheaval.
I was addressing the scenario given, where the concern is the USD suddenly losing a ton of value

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:30 am

Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:22 am i don't think he's saying you should be optimistic about crypto, he's saying that you should be less than infinitely hostile towards crypto. motte bailey potential here though for sure. but like i am super hostile to crypto because it's mostly scams, so what are we even arguing about here
“more optimistic” if you prefer. the point I’m making that “not a proven ponzi” is a very low bar, and “only a few % of these projects are proven ponzis” is a strong condemnation of it, and certainly doesn’t imply there’s anything worthwhile in the ecosystem
Crunchums wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:22 am i'm confused - if crypto lets you send money to russian emigrants or w/e where the regular financial system wouldn't, isn't that the crypto financial system helping you? am i confused about our terms here?
money =/= the financial system. when people talk about the crypto financial system recreating the traditional financial system but worse in every way, that means crypto banks/investment funds &c

Magical
Adding Machine
Adding Machine
Posts: 248
Joined: Oct 12, 2022

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Magical » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:49 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:30 am money =/= the financial system. when people talk about the crypto financial system recreating the traditional financial system but worse in every way, that means crypto banks/investment funds &c
Like which are you gonna bet on collapsing first, your government or your crypto exchange?

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:50 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:23 am
Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:14 am Is it? It just seems sort of obvious to me. If you like and trust the central authority, there is no benefit to a decentralized solution. Crypto is useful when you don't like or trust the central authority, and wish to do things it wouldn't approve of. Effective things that the central authority doesn't approve of are generally crimes, because by and large, the central authority gets to decide what crimes are.

I wouldn't call myself a crypro-skeptic, though, or a crypto enthusiast. I think my stance on it is somewhat similar to the codex guy's, except I wouldn't use most of his terrible arguments. The russian emigrant example is a good one, though.
“like and trust” is too strong (crypto is very bad at what it does so you need a very strong reason for using it to be worthwhile, e.g. this transaction is literally illegal or whatever), but otherwise, I dunno what to say, no-one denies crypto is good for crime
Well who doesn't like crime? Crime is awesome.

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:55 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:50 am Well who doesn't like crime? Crime is awesome.
this is probable cause and I am putting you under arrest

User avatar
Doug
Has anybody seen my parrot
Forum Elf
Posts: 20552
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Doug » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:58 am

You know who doesn't like crime is McGruff
It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

http://devilsbiscuit.com/

User avatar
Blissful
"I don’t believe that we will lose life or have to discard cards ourselves."
Sentient Keyboard
Posts: 4497
Joined: Nov 30, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Blissful » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:05 am

i only like crimes that are good

if youre committing bad crimes i dont like that
Image

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:07 am

Doug wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:58 am You know who doesn't like crime is McGruff
mcgruff doesn't like crime. the guy who played him fuckin loves crime tho https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcgruff-th ... in-prison/

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:43 am

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:07 am
Doug wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:58 am You know who doesn't like crime is McGruff
mcgruff doesn't like crime. the guy who played him fuckin loves crime tho https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcgruff-th ... in-prison/
That mostly sounds like good crime based on that article! (I have not read anything beyond that article so don't @me if it turns out he did a bad crime)
Morales insisted during the sentencing hearing that he was nonviolent, but U.S. District Judge Vanessa Gilmore said, “Everything I read about you makes you seem like a scary person,” reports the station.
seriously what is this nonsense

User avatar
Jeb Bush 2012
Posting Automaton
Posting Automaton
Posts: 2520
Joined: Jun 24, 2020

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:48 am

Ashenai wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:43 am That mostly sounds like good crime based on that article! (I have not read anything beyond that article so don't @me if it turns out he did a bad crime)
Morales insisted during the sentencing hearing that he was nonviolent, but U.S. District Judge Vanessa Gilmore said, “Everything I read about you makes you seem like a scary person,” reports the station.
seriously what is this nonsense
I think it’s reasonable to conclude that the person keeping a grenade launcher (along with a substantial collection of other weapons) on the site of their drug operation may, in face, be a scary person, regardless of one’s opinions on drugs in general

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:05 am

I don't think you should send people to jail for 16 years no matter how "scary" they are, if all they did was grow/sell weed and own weapons

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:09 am

And I'm not even a Second Amendment guy! I definitely don't think people should own grenade launchers. But I also don't think it's reasonable to jail them for 16 years, if they do end up owning a grenade launcher.

User avatar
Ashenai
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 10521
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:05 am

Blissful wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:05 am i only like crimes that are good

if youre committing bad crimes i dont like that
I was taught to only do crimes if it would be extremely funny to do so

now let me tell you about my sense of humor *revs up chainsaw*

Post Reply