slatestarcodex

Probably what *this* should be called.
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Ashenai
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 12:06 am

seathesee wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:35 pm
Ashenai wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:22 pm he fundamentally doesn't give a shit about other people
what is the basis for this judgment?
Like I said, the "pedo guy" incident

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by seathesee » Thu May 26, 2022 3:12 am

i guess i dont understand the connection and also assumed there was more. its a strong stance.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 3:25 am

It's pretty clear to me! For most people, that situation was about the kids trapped in the cave. Kids are trapped in the cave, we have to get them out. If they get out, that is good and we win! If they die, that is bad and we lose. That is how a normal person evaluates that situation.

That is very clearly NOT how Elon Musk evaluated that situation. His calculus looked like this: kids are trapped in the cave, this is my chance to show the world how awesome I am. If my tiny submarine is successful and helps save the kids, that is good and I win! If the kids die, or if someone else rescues them instead, that is bad and I lose.

This seems manifestly obvious to me based on everything he said during that time, and it is why he was so hurt that some diver rescued the kids instead. He lost! The kids were safe but who gives a shit, that wasn't Elon Musk's win condition. For the kids, or anyone who cared about the kids, that diver was MVP and won us the game. For Musk, he's the guy that made him lose. Musk then tweeted that he would make a video proving that his sub would have worked! Which just sounds absurd to a normal person, because, lol what, who gives a shit, the kids are out already. But that's what was important to Musk.

You can call it narcissism, or just being a self-absorbed twat, whatever. I think it's evil. A commonplace, wretched kind of evil, where you just can't see other people as important. That is what I think Musk is like, behind all of his posturing.

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Thu May 26, 2022 3:27 am

would you say the same about the cave diver, who started the spat

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 3:30 am

I don't know anything about the cave diver. He was mean to Musk because he thought the submarine was a stupid idea that would not help. That doesn't tell me anything deeper about his motivations.

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 3:33 am

If the submarine had succeeded and then the diver had gone into a snit instead then I'd be ranting about him now, probably.

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 5:07 am

Since I've written this I've been attempting to disprove my thesis, so I've been trying to find anything Elon Musk wrote that demonstrates him caring about other people (specific people. not "humanity"). It is astonishingly difficult! I could find a tweet where he called his own Nana "the kindest", and he had this quote about Grimes: "We are semi-separated but still love each other, see each other frequently and are on great terms", which sounds kind of cold and template-y but it's literally the only nice thing I could find him saying about her. Ever! Note that the reverse doesn't hold true, I could easily find any amount of nice things Grimes said about Elon. It is clear that she cared (cares) about him a lot. There was also a tweet where he said "Just want say that I support @Jack as Twitter CEO. He has a good ❤️".

That's it, that's all I found. I looked through a lot of his tweets, searched for stuff. Nothing. He just doesn't seem to consider people as... anything. He talks a lot about big concepts, ideas. He likes to shoot the shit with others about ideas! He just doesn't seem to have any thoughts on people, except in the abstract ("My biggest mistake is probably weighing too much on someone's talent and not someone's personality. I think it matters whether someone has a good heart," not talking about anyone in particular), or when he's mad at someone and insults them.

I am honestly curious if anyone can show me a side of Elon I've missed, because I'm weirdly fascinated by this now.

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Thu May 26, 2022 2:32 pm

Ashenai wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:33 am If the submarine had succeeded and then the diver had gone into a snit instead then I'd be ranting about him now, probably.
i don't think you can use the criteria "who rescued the kids first" when criticizing musk for wanting to be the one who rescued the kids

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 2:56 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:32 pm
Ashenai wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:33 am If the submarine had succeeded and then the diver had gone into a snit instead then I'd be ranting about him now, probably.
i don't think you can use the criteria "who rescued the kids first" when criticizing musk for wanting to be the one who rescued the kids
That's not the criteria, the criteria is "who got mad that the kids were rescued (by someone else)"

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Thu May 26, 2022 3:02 pm

i don't think musk got mad about that, he got mad about the diver saying musk can stick his submarine where it hurts

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Thu May 26, 2022 3:04 pm

Musk's initial tweet was "Great news that they made it out safely. Congratulations to an outstanding rescue team!"

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu May 26, 2022 3:12 pm

Oh that is significant, I was not aware of that one!

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by pterrus » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:47 pm

I wonder if anyone uses Santa Claus as rationality training for their kids.

"Daddy, how does Santa get to every house in just one night? That seems like it would take too much time."

"Ah, it sounds like you noticed that you are confused."

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:35 am

i realized that the debate about when super-intelligent AI will happen has a simple answer: 2028
u gotta skate

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:25 pm

I am extremely baffled by Zvi's apparent lack of exposure to - or defenses against - dishonest repairmen. Is this sort of thing rare in New York?

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by pterrus » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:46 pm

That example seems really egregious, I think it's probably rare that they try to scam you that bad.

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:29 pm

i always get 3 or more quotes for any contractor i hire. i bcc them all at once so they know they need to put forward a competitive offer (because the e-mail is addressed to no-one in particular.)

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:31 pm

Khaos wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:29 pm i always get 3 or more quotes for any contractor i hire. i bcc them all at once so they know they need to put forward a competitive offer (because the e-mail is addressed to no-one in particular.)
to expound on this, i usually end up hiring someone in the middle in terms of cost, based on how the reviews are

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:43 pm

send me thirty thousand dollars ⭐⭐
send me forty thousand dollars ⭐⭐⭐⭐
send me fifty thousand dollars ⭐⭐⭐
u gotta skate

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Blissful » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:19 pm

Crunchums wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:43 pm send me thirty thousand dollars ⭐⭐
send me forty thousand dollars ⭐⭐⭐⭐
send me fifty thousand dollars ⭐⭐⭐
Image

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Blissful » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:20 pm

send me forty thousand dollars (Best Value!)
Image

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:17 am

Blissful wrote:send me forty thousand dollars (Best Value!)
:lol:
u gotta skate

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Doug » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:46 am

$39,999 weekend deals
It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:25 pm

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/b ... the-future
https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/h ... on-the-909

i feel like trying to apply morality to "which of these worlds is better" doesn't make sense. morality is about the trade-offs between your utility and the utility of others; which of these worlds is better is not a moral question. and yeah obv you can jerry-rig it like oh well what if i'm a dictator and i'm choosing between actions that lead to these two worlds, but like the answer is hey stop being a dictator who messes with peoples' lives like that
u gotta skate

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:28 pm

im pretty sure this rejection makes you not a consequentialist

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:10 pm

I am pleased to say that it is actual words and sentences and not just filler (aside from pages 15 through 19, which are just a glyph of a human figure copy-pasted nine hundred fifty four times)

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:18 pm

Crunchums wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:25 pm oh well what if i'm a dictator and i'm choosing between actions that lead to these two worlds, but like the answer is hey stop being a dictator who messes with peoples' lives like that
my response to that is that there are better ways of being moral than making sure you're maximally powerless and therefore innocent by default

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:23 pm

(Every time you have a meaningful choice, you're always choosing between actions that lead to two different worlds.)

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:46 pm

do i want to live in a world where i've eaten one more sandwich in my total life span, or one where i've eaten one more wrap?

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Doug » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:50 pm

Crunchums wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:25 pm morality is about the trade-offs between your utility and the utility of others; which of these worlds is better is not a moral question. and yeah obv you can jerry-rig it like oh well what if i'm a dictator and i'm choosing between actions that lead to these two worlds, but like the answer is hey stop being a dictator who messes with peoples' lives like that
Goddamn it, Jerry
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