slatestarcodex

Probably what *this* should be called.
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:12 pm

and i feel like you could say hey didn't you just contradict yourself, like if i have a button that changes our world in some way how is that different from your eyelash button example
and my answer would be that generally the answer will be "don't fuck with people" (because contractualism) and the eyelash example is an example of sufficiently generous utility values that it overrides that (but if you set it up so hey actually there's one guy whose utility will get fucked by this change somehow then it changes whether i press the button)

hey but isn't this all contingent upon your own conception of [what contract people would sign under the veil of ignorance]? yes! again, imo it's both a bug and a feature of contractualism
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:13 pm

Khaos wrote: this all checks out for me
:hfive:
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:24 pm

Khaos wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:41 pm is that any different from an eigenvector?
nah, it's an alternate term for eigenvector that's used sometimes in quantum contexts (just saying eigenvector is also common)

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm

and obviously if you had a button that could make the world much better it would be morally obligatory to press it. if you've adopted a moral framework that tells you not to you gotta throw that moral framework in the bin

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:31 pm

get that useless bum ass moral framework run over by a trolley, posthaste

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:33 pm

but wait! if you flip the switch the trolley will run over the moral framework that tells people it is okay to have their phones off silent in public places

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:35 pm

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm and obviously if you had a button that could make the world much better it would be morally obligatory to press it. if you've adopted a moral framework that tells you not to you gotta throw that moral framework in the bin
i do not think moral frameworks need to return any particular result in impossible hypotheticals

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:41 pm

Rylinks wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:35 pm i do not think moral frameworks need to return any particular result in impossible hypotheticals
spoken like a man who needs to be kept well away from the button

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:43 pm

i push a button that makes the world a better place all the time

it's labelled "Submit"

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:43 pm

is it morally obligatory to push a button that instantiates omelas

e: to be clear this is rhetorical and i could not imagine caring less about a moral theory's answer to this question

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:50 pm

it's actually morally obligatory to push a button that destroys omelas, for being hacky

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:52 pm

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:24 pm
Khaos wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:41 pm is that any different from an eigenvector?
nah, it's an alternate term for eigenvector that's used sometimes in quantum contexts (just saying eigenvector is also common)
yes but this is only really helpful if you conceptualize a spatial function as existing in an infinite-dimension vector space of the position basis set

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:53 pm

Rylinks wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:52 pm yes but this is only really helpful if you conceptualize a spatial function as existing in an infinite-dimension vector space of the position basis set
I don't really know what you mean. it's literally just another word for eigenvector

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:57 pm

okay maybe I see what you mean but I think if you're calling something an eigenstate you're implicitly thinking of it as an element of a vector space (infinite dimensional or otherwise). it's all vector spaces!

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:00 pm

have I gone on an insane rant about omelas yet or was that on another forum

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:01 pm

fuck omelas

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:03 pm

Ashenai wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:00 pm have I gone on an insane rant about omelas yet or was that on another forum
not that I recall

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:05 pm

on the pro-leguin side though I did read all the earthsea books recently and I think they're great. the version I read had endnotes from her after each one and it's neat seeing how her thinking about them changed over the decades she was writing

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Khaos » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:05 pm

you have, according to search

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:06 pm

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:03 pm
Ashenai wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:00 pm have I gone on an insane rant about omelas yet or was that on another forum
not that I recall
alright, I will have to gather my strength

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm

Khaos wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:05 pm you have, according to search
oh nvm then

it still sucks

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm

Jeb Bush 2012 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:57 pm okay maybe I see what you mean but I think if you're calling something an eigenstate you're implicitly thinking of it as an element of a vector space (infinite dimensional or otherwise). it's all vector spaces!
yes all im saying is that understanding the position representation of the hamiltonian is important and describing it as a linear operator of an infinite-dimensional vector space is unlikely to be helpful to most people

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:09 pm

Rylinks wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm yes all im saying is that understanding the position representation of the hamiltonian is important and describing it as a linear operator over an infinite-dimensional basis state is unlikely to be helpful to most people
that's why I only think of it as a linear operator on ℂ^2^n

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:10 pm

Khaos wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:43 pm i push a button that makes the world a better place all the time

it's labelled "Submit"
finally, we have an answer to the question "what happens when i post?"
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:11 pm

Khaos wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:43 pm i push a button that makes the world a better place all the time

it's labelled "Submit"
Shit Online Doms Say

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Rylinks » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:12 pm

"by a series of button-pushing hypotheticals i have demonstrated that it's morally obligatory to torture your own child for the greater good if you have the opportunity" fuck off

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:12 pm

Ashenai wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:00 pm have I gone on an insane rant about omelas yet or was that on another forum
i think yes and i am right viewtopic.php?p=53021#p53021
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:13 pm

in the spirit of forums anarchy, let us now also institute moral anarchy

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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Crunchums » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:14 pm

damn that was like 3 years ago? wow
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Re: slatestarcodex

Post by Ashenai » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:14 pm

Crunchums wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:12 pm
Ashenai wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:00 pm have I gone on an insane rant about omelas yet or was that on another forum
i think yes and i am right viewtopic.php?p=53021#p53021
my word, who is that well-spoken and extremely correct gentleman

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