starcraft

BW > SC2

Shitposting, Video Games, Manga, and Anime

Moderator: Wumpy

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:34 am

Crunchums wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:22 am but they're the race i feel, you know?
I do, zerg 4 life

re: mech switch, you sound pretty on the ball.
A thought, one of the advantages of being a nub and ending up banking a ton is it makes it way easier to do the sudden muta switch vs mech. Oh, I have 1200 mins and gas? mise well

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:55 am

Hoshi wrote:
Crunchums wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:22 am but they're the race i feel, you know?
I do, zerg 4 life
:hfive:
re: mech switch, you sound pretty on the ball.
in general execution is much more my problem than game knowledge. which isn't surprising given the ratio of time i've spent watching pros play vs. playing myself.
"i know what to do, i just can't execute it" is maybe the most classic starcraft excuse of all time. it's usually dumb reasoning because ok you may know what to do as a spectator, but that's different from being able to recognize what the opponent is doing when you are playing. so the thing that i would say is when the game is over i know what i should have done differently, and even when I know what I am trying to accomplish I am not great at executing it (micro or macro)
A thought, one of the advantages of being a nub and ending up banking a ton is it makes it way easier to do the sudden muta switch vs mech. Oh, I have 1200 mins and gas? mise well
yeah haha for sure
i actually tried that but because i am terrible they accomplished almost nothing

there was some interview or video with Flash where he suggested that his advantage as a player was being able to prioritize the most important thing. like basically you can have amazing mechanics / micro / game sense, but the thing he thinks people don't focus enough on is prioritization. and i totally buy that - like i remember some thing where Mind prepared some clever TvT build against Flash where he dropped the main at a specific timing and then followed it by immediately hitting the natural, which was smart because they just pulled all their stuff from their natural. and he said, in practice it had a 100% winrate (when it still had the element of surprise). and he did it against Flash and Flash beat it because instead of pulling all the stuff from his natural he only pulled exactly enough units to defend the drop.

so like when i say "i am terrible [and] they accomplished nothing" and "execution is much more my problem than game knowledge" - I think I might actually play better if instead of pushing myself about playing fast all the time, I sometimes literally just slow down and think, "what is the most important thing that I need to be focusing on right now?"
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:58 am

and especially at lower levels, macro is just so important. like if i have a solid early game against a player around my current MMR then it should be pretty easy to win if I just macro well and then focus on big army control in the late game
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:07 am

i just watched the replay and man i feel absolutely embarrassed to have lost that game
he had like nothing
i've got like 3 lurkers defending my 3rd; if i just attack his natural with them + the 2 that I put outside his natural i probably win instantly
ugh

i wonder how you are supposed to deal with vultures once they start adding them. probably just have so much macro that you can a-move speedlings everywhere i guess
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:09 am

that just comes back to that "focus on the most important thing" that i said
i need to play more deliberately
u gotta skate

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:11 am

Crunchums wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:55 am so like when i say "i am terrible [and] they accomplished nothing" and "execution is much more my problem than game knowledge" - I think I might actually play better if instead of pushing myself about playing fast all the time, I sometimes literally just slow down and think, "what is the most important thing that I need to be focusing on right now?"
Probably true. My friend who is so fucking slow is a better DotA2 player than me because he does more useful stuff and has better other fundamentals.

What you say about prioritisation seems correct. When you watch high-level FPVods you see so many times when things are just left to trust (or just left to die because well, not gonna miss my timing).

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:12 am

Crunchums wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:07 am i just watched the replay and man i feel absolutely embarrassed to have lost that game
he had like nothing
i've got like 3 lurkers defending my 3rd; if i just attack his natural with them + the 2 that I put outside his natural i probably win instantly
ugh

i wonder how you are supposed to deal with vultures once they start adding them. probably just have so much macro that you can a-move speedlings everywhere i guess
Even at the pro level vultures just seem to wreck zerg. It's too hard to be properly microing your zerglings so you only lose them one at a time, so you just see whole groups of 12 blow up, yeah.

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:13 am

vultures are bullshit :rage:
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:15 am

hydras are the best unit to deal with mech in general but you can't really use them to deal with mech switch because you're not teched for them
one technique that i think is good is you just send (with move, not a-move) lings across the map in the hopes of clearing some mines before you a-move more of them
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:18 am

Hoshi wrote: What you say about prioritization seems correct. When you watch high-level FPVods you see so many times when things are just left to trust (or just left to die because well, not gonna miss my timing).
for sure pros do those sorts of things. I think Flash's point is that most pros spend too much time trying to be everywhere at once. when the most important thing is controlling your tanks (for example), you should focus on that and not worry if other things slip a bit.
u gotta skate

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:11 am

Crunchums wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:18 am
Hoshi wrote: What you say about prioritization seems correct. When you watch high-level FPVods you see so many times when things are just left to trust (or just left to die because well, not gonna miss my timing).
for sure pros do those sorts of things. I think Flash's point is that most pros spend too much time trying to be everywhere at once. when the most important thing is controlling your tanks (for example), you should focus on that and not worry if other things slip a bit.
Yeah, we aren't disagreeing, I just think players like us who have seen the pros try to emulate them, and end up tunnel-visioning on minor execution feats while macro slips. Flash would say to prioritise macro in that situation, and I was kinda extending the point by saying that part of this (especially relevant to our level of play) is just learning to let go of microing every fight, or keeping the scouting worker alive that we're not even processing most of the info from, and just macro.

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:52 pm

i feel you
personally i feel like i'm not even like overfocusing on micro, it's more that i feel so overwhelmed by the game that i'm playing without focusing on anything at all, and it's really bad
u gotta skate

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:48 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxNFgt0dxQ
it's comforting to watch jaedong struggle with all the same things i struggle with
u gotta skate

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:34 am

Uhhh no, that video is hugely depressing. Watching late game zerg play, not to mention just how much information isn't there on the screen in an FPVOD that is being calculated by the players regardless, is just like "right, that's never gonna be me".

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:17 pm

personally it's not hard to come to terms with never being as good as jaedong (or any other korean pro)
u gotta skate

User avatar
Hoshi
Fallen Star
Cardboard Robot
Posts: 838
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Hoshi » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:48 pm

Well, yeah, but what I mean is I watch the last few minutes of that vid and I can't even follow what's going on. Like I'm not even having to physically input any of the things he's doing but regardless I can't actually follow the thought process at all. Late game zerg is all about that multitask and harassment and it's overwhelming to see what it looks like in FPVOD form, with half the map black, is what I mean.

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:32 am

i can follow him, but sometimes i have to go back a few seconds. like one thing that i learned from that game was his method of denying the other main - he tries to send units from his expansion, but there's an m&m ball in the way. so he sends a different group of units from his natural, and those units get there. basically as i watch i see, oh he accomplished this, and then i go back and try to figure out how he accomplished it. like i use the same hotkey setup as jaedong (1-3 units, 4-7 hatcheries) and it's like, how do you possibly accomplish things with just 1-3 for units? and the answer is he's doing things preemptively - like those units that he sent from his natural were already in a position outside of his natural. sometimes he'll plan to attack a certain spot and so he goes drag select + a-move a bunch of groups that are far away first. or like another game he busted some factory-expand terran's natural and i rewound to determine his decision making process (he started hydra speed once he used lings to confirm the expansion)
u gotta skate

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:39 am

my battlestation is operational

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:57 am

im watching your vod

you have over 6000 minerals. i feel like thats not right

User avatar
Rylinks
her skirt got quite a lot smaller,
but her heart is still the same
size it was before
Forum Elf
Posts: 12359
Joined: Jun 13, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Rylinks » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:59 am

yeah you want at least 10,000

User avatar
Juri
We're Knights of the Round Table
We attack each turn if able
Typewriter Monkey
Posts: 9999
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Juri » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:14 am

Rylinks wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:59 am yeah you want at least 10,000
Image

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:20 pm

Khaos wrote:im watching your vod

you have over 6000 minerals. i feel like thats not right
Crunchums wrote:i am so bad at this game lol
u gotta skate

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm

now that i have studied your strategy, we should kung fu fight

meet me tonight by the bike racks

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:28 pm

i dunno about playing actual starcraft - i want to but i think it's not smart given what it does to my wrists
but we can definitely still play worms. what times are good for you this weekend / tonight?
u gotta skate

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:38 pm

kids go to bed before 8pm MT

i checked my folder and i have a copy of worms as well

(i have some of my own UMS maps i'd like show you as well :D)

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:38 pm

hoshi, you in?

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:48 pm

so we're talking like 10pm eastern?
i am def down to play other UMS maps as well
u gotta skate

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:53 pm

is that too late for you? i could maybe do earlier on saturday

User avatar
Crunchums
Forum Elf
Forum Elf
Posts: 16113
Joined: Aug 24, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Crunchums » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:56 pm

i could do 10pm but i'd only want to play for like an hour, so earlier would be nicer
u gotta skate

User avatar
Khaos
They should have sent a poet.
Forum Elf
Posts: 16862
Joined: Aug 23, 2018

Re: starcraft

Post by Khaos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:08 pm

i'll ask my wife if she can put my son to sleep and we can start at 9pm eastern :rts:

Post Reply